First my obligatory disclaimer. I’ve been a boxing fan long enough to know that JCC is absolutely one of the best ever, and is certainly in the conversation about the greatest Mexican (and otherwise) fighters of all time.
But let’s talk about the W-L record. (And this certainly does not limit itself to Julio. I can name another compatriot of his with a similar career path, although in this case I don’t rate him nearly as much).
Some cold, hard facts.
Julio was into his 10th pro fight before facing someone with at least one victory on his record. ONE.
Julio’s 1st opponent with a winning record was in Julio’s 13th pro fight. The guy was 5-2.
Julio’s 18th pro fight was against a guy who was 0-7 at the time.
Although his 19th opponent was 20-13 at the time, he was coming off seven straight losses. ALL BY KNOCKOUT!
By Julio’s 35th pro fight, a full career for some fighters, the combined record of his opponents to date was 177-164. Hardly a glowing resume.
There’s more, but I think the point has been made.
He fought his first 37 pro fights in Culiacan, Mexico, ffs!!
Talk about fattening records… he fought a 2-16 opponent in his 50th fight. He fought a poor bastard who was 0-1 in Julio’s 66th pro fight. Granted, that was 2 weeks after Julio’s previous fight… but just call it a glorified sparring session, then.
By comparison, a guy like Miguel Cotto last fought a guy with a losing record in only his 5th pro fight. Fifth! He started his pro career fighting off the island (in Texas).
It’s just a different mentality. As long as those facts can be kept in perspective, we can make honest comparisons between fighters.
Respect to all great fighters of the past. But in reference to my P4P rankings thread, I personally value quality of opposition and traveling outside your friendly confines as two huge factors.
That is fair assessment and even the older great fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson faced people with padded records.
Chavez certainly faced the best during his peak. Oddly enough because he was chasing 100-0 record he still faced poor opponents in between the best boxers. That was always strange watching JCC beat Meldrick Taylor and then face some club fighter in his next contest.
He absolutely WAS chasing that “100” mark. Can’t say I blame him. One hundred victories in boxing is a pretty lofty number. Us discerning fans can see through that and still appreciate the greatness of a Chavez. But casuals flip out at the number and look no further.
All of this makes me appreciate young guys who go for the best opponents early, even more.
Never forget Haugen’s RIP lead up being about Chavez and his loaded early record of cab drivers. While there was some truth to it it’s also true that each and every record can be spliced apart and it’s pretty interesting what they can reveal. I still say and have always believed that no other sport but boxing can sheer numbers be easily manipulated. To the degree that they are. Literally stacked and manufactured because after all that unfortunately can be a selling point. *See Floyd . And hey with Chavez don’t for forget the “loss” in his first year that was magically massaged into a “win” the next week. It’s incumbent on any fan yelling about glossy numbers, and equally tearing a guy down about glossy numbers, to deep dive into the substance. Rule number one…always look beyond the numbers. Don’t just look at their opponents, but onto the opponents of the opponents. And over the last couple of decades, it’s very rewarding and so much easier to do with fact finding at our fingertips and keyboards. Some of us didn’t have that back in the day . I remember scouring Boxing illustrated and mags early on just to compile patchy records in some order. Talk about a rabbit hole! Once we found the Ralph Citro books well it was pretty damn cool. I remember trying to do a line by line with Wilder around when he started getting all the ‘all time puncher’ chatter and man that was revealing. Granted I gave Wilder hell and have always been a sceptic. I was just surprised at exactly how much manufacturing there was. Handful of no hopers, quite a few former lt hvys coming off long layoffs and even a few spr middles. Truth is, we can strip away the first 30 or so fights of Chavez, just pretend they don’t exist. I can’t say he would still not have become the great that he had.
Absolutely. I posted something similar about Chavez in a FB thread, and got reamed for it. Never mind that I prefaced the stats with the same type of comment I posted here. Some people get knee-jerk reactions when discussing their favorite boxers.
Hell… I’m literally “TitoFan”, and I’ll be the first to agree that his father should’ve handed him off at some point in his career who could’ve furthered Felix’s development. Filling in the gaps, sort to speak. We need to be brutally objective as fans.
Still, that being said… Trinidad DID have one hell of a career.
It’s crazy like that, the numbers and depth. It can be so random. I mean I always thought a guy like Mario Martinez was one of his better early opponents and a first belt for Chavez but wasn’t in the Ring at least up until May, if at all. He gave a couple of the best hell after that. Yet a guy like Duplessis, ironically talk about completely padded records , was not only ranked when Chavez got him but also after Chavez absolutely destroyed him…still. That post-Meldrick Taylor run in 91 was one of the softer landings a champ has seen .
Your hatred for Mexican fighters is so obvious it’s hilarious. Chavez’s early record is obvious for what it is. It’s on-the-job training. His amateur career was barely 15 fights. He turned pro at 17. At 22 years old he fought Mario Martinez for the world title. Martinez was a very good fighter. He was 33-1 going into the fight. Chavez stopped him in 8. At 23 years old he destroyed Roger Mayweather in 2 rounds.
At 22 years old Miguel Cotto was fighting the 11-14 Rudolfo Lunsford. Followed by the 10-6 Arturo Rodriguez.
OMG… you’re back for more punishment.
Oh well… it’s your a$s.
Let’s leave your biased statements off the forum, ok sport?
Personally I don’t give a rat’s a$s about his amateur career.
Once you start racking up professional wins, it pads the ol’ resume.
Facts are facts.
I put all the numbers out there.
I suggest you do the same.
I also prefaced the whole thing saying Chavez is a true ATG.
But of course let’s just blow that off, right?
Are you REALLY gonna compare Cotto’s early trajectory to Chavez’s??
Personally I don’t give a rat’s a$s about his amateur career.
If you don’t think a fighter’s amateur career plays a part in how a fighter’s pro career starts out, then you’re a bigger idiot than I remember you to be. And believe me, I thought of you as a pretty big idiot. Chavez didn’t have much of an amateur career. The start of his career is filled with bums cuz it was on the job training. He turned pro at 17. Who was Cotto fighting at 17?
Are you REALLY gonna compare Cotto’s early trajectory to Chavez’s??
I would never compare anything about them. It’s insulting to Chavez to do so. Chavez is ATG. He’s debatable top 15 of fighters of all time. Cotto was a good fighter. But he’s debatable top 15 of Puto Rican fighters only. There’s levels to this shit. Cotto ain’t close to Chavez level. And that’s no debatable.
. And hey with Chavez don’t for forget the “loss” in his first year that was magically massaged into a “win” the next week. It’s incumbent on any fan yelling about glossy numbers, and equally tearing a guy down about glossy numbers, to deep dive into the substance. Rule number one…always look beyond the numbers. Don’t just look at their opponents, but onto the opponents of the opponents. And over the last couple of decades, it’s very rewarding and so much easier to do with fact finding at our fingertips and keyboards. Some of us didn’t have that back in the day 
, was not only ranked when Chavez got him but also after Chavez absolutely destroyed him…still. That post-Meldrick Taylor run in 91 was one of the softer landings a champ has seen 